Always a pleasure to find good posts in these forums (and I must say it is more and more becoming a surprise as well...).
Your tutorial is well written and documented, it makes me want to check this Python thing - there is a huge programming gap in my amateur carrier (started with basic and stopped at Pascal, Delphi...), and C++ code does not feel straightforward enough for me to spend time to learn.

Looking forward to reading the next episode, thank you!

There is no more AI learning.
There used to be some learning and you could check your lfs folder for ".knw" files that were updated for each AI after a race (in which the AI participated of course ).
However as I see it the AIs were considering their line was an improvement if the split was better, so it quickly lead to good split --> crash behaviour, reproduced each lap.

The AIs ignored grip variation due to tyre temperature (main issue - they "learnt" a turn with optimal temp and reproduced the line and speed on cold / cooked tyres), were not able to pit, ignored damage and could not cope with clutch so Scawen improved all that at the cost of AI learning. They also never attempted to overtake, but considering the strange moves they pull now I'm not sure it is an improvement

On the other hand AIs are A LOT faster now - try a 10 lap race on WE1 with LX4 or LX6 for example, with pro AIs, and give them a good set...

Final drive is as it says the final ratio of the gearbox, that affects all the gears (multiply ratios).
So:
If you want to keep the ratio / cuve between the different gears but want a longer / shorter span, keep all gears the same and change only the final gear ratio. Example: when you start working on a restricted car like GT2 it is an easy way to take a GT setup for the gear ratios and use this slider. For fine tuning you will need to read below.

If an (some) individual gears do not please you (for ex if the layout is such that you have to change up just before a corner) then change only the gear(s) concerned using only the gear slider.

Optimum is not possible because it depends on the track, wind, other setup options and driving style. You can get a good guess using Bob's VHPA - check the unofficial addons theads.

My Wednesday evenings are kind of free for a few months, a pity this is not around any more Good luck, I'll keep a close look.

Quote from Doorman :

I get more whinges about tyre stacks being 'on the racing line' when clearly they are not, than anything else. This, I think, is because LFSers have come to regard cutting as legitimate.

You are right, it takes time to re-learn the track when you have a go with your tyre stacks on DmR server.
I personnally find it ineresting and challenging as it creates new corners - nearly new tracks!
So I would like to see some evolution to existing tracks, similar to RL tracks - after many races and practice some corners are modified to provide more safety, or a better show - why not in LFS?

Even better since we have no RL tracks we could keep both versions of a corner... configurable tracks +1

Probably not with the engine off

Split time is an evil creation, added in the game to freeze your concentration and alter your hormones secretion thus producing excessive sweat any time the "split" is lower than your pb.

Trail braking is a pro thing, created for us middle tier drivers to miss braking points and turns entries so that the fast ones can pass easily WHILE laughing their heads off, as we try miserably to brake while turning and end up four wheels locked straigth in the grass.

Forget about these two.

...and thanks to the OP for posting it here, where we all (kind of) expect to find serious info.
To the moaners, posting it HERE is funny. In the bad joke thread it would be merely amusing, ruining the surprise effect.
Where are we going if we have to explain humour?

Quote from Leonidae-MFT@GTP :

Well, greedy bank hasn't managed to kill my interest for this game, so I'm probably going the voucher route.

Yeah, the instructions were there, and even moneybookers had instructions on their site, but I do not have printer, thus they were pretty much useless. I tried my best to explain them, even wrote on paper what the instructions were, but the staff of the bank obviously lacks english skills.:dunce:

No instructions to the bank needed - only transfer money from your bank account to a local (finnish) moneybookers account provided by moneybookers (similar to paying a telephone bill through the bank), containing a reference text that will link the transfer to your moneybookers account.
You will then be credited (5-10 days) and can buy on the net from the moneybookers account (instant).

Moneybooker fees are close to zero if you do it correctly.
Just spend some time reading their (well hidden, non intuitive unfortunately) faq.
http://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=fees
Upload fund via bank transfer is free in Finland and Australia.

Extract from their website:

I used moneybookers as well to get my license, it only cost me 1.75% change fees and a free bank transfer (free because you send money to a moneybookers account in YOUR country, not in UK. They have accounts in all the countries listed - link above.)

I hope this helps, good luck.

Just have a go with the set attached -
the inferno set is a hotlap set, designed to go really fast, so it is very unforgiving.
It will allow you to drive on the edge but will grant a severe punishment if you step out of the line!

The set I posted does not use a locked differential so it is easier to use (turn - in is easier) and when you meet kerbs you will lose power but not control. It allows some margin for racing compared to hotlap sets.
I can do 1.34 - 1.35 with some consistency with it.

Best thing is to watch and then follow - find a good server first!

Well, I do
AS tracks with the chicane, if you miss you braking point at the end of the long straight you end up wide and you may have to cut according to your (failed) line, in order to avoid the rest of the field. I did that mistake a few when I jumped from LX6 into a FZS and back in CTRA servers.

Quote from Doorman :

Sorry to drag this thread up but I didn't want to start another on the same subject.
My idea is to inflict cutters with a 5 second penalty every time they go off track. The technology is in place as in hotlapping. Go off track and lap is invalidated. Instead of invalidating, plonk a time penalty on 'em! How long would it take to train people up to the art of keeping it on the island?
No only that, you wouldn't have to put tyre stacks/straw bales in strategic places, which elicit howls of anguish (It's on the racing line!) and nothing needs to be done to the tracks themselves.
As a side issue it may well induce a little more care in the general driving standards
Thank you.

The idea seems good to me, only problem (as stated above) is the unfairness, the arbitrary application of the penalty.

Ex: If 2 drivers end up in the above described chicane at the same time, and play if fair, they may be forced to take wide lines way off the ideal racin line and thus get undeserved penalties for it.

Ex2: miss your braking point under pressure and you get a bit wide - ok, you slow down and get back on track, position lost. Did you deserve an extra 5 second penalty for it?

Extra obstacles (visible) do a better punishment job in theory but with the current collision detection they might as well send you to the moon... and if your field is tight flying tyres may cause a massive wreck - mass punishment?

I think a few cones well disposed with a collision detection, penalty linked (like training? I'm no programmer but it seems possible), may work, because it might be easier to tweak (penalty after a number of cones, or penalty above a number of cones/ lap or anything the like).

Thanks for digging up this thread, interesting to read knowing how LFS evolved. We are coming closer to a solution it seems

Very good post (again!)
+1 to the Wiki / Manual

Damn I must be getting old. I already feel I'm going way too fast at 50mph / 80km/h through blackwood T1 in XRG...
@becky, that was a good post to read, thanks.
So what can we conclude from the moaning tendency post-Z? My theories:
1) Most of the LFS moaners do post here, which increases their visibility compared with in-game population
2) Satisfied / patient ones do not feel the need to shout around
3) Kids education these days... enjoy the ride, as the path to go to the goal IS the goal, fun and excitement. Especially in a driving sim.

Quote from Crommi :

Doesn't sound like a powerhouse, I have no clue how much 13,5 foot-pounds is in Nm but I get a feeling it's somewhere between stationary and "Oh no, uphill. Unload shopping bags!"

Just wondering where the shopping bags were stored in the first place

to farcar, well said.
I appreciate the game and am happy to contribute with my license (and test patches debugging) - What the dev team has achieved there is more or less a dream for us all working, so my license is a thank you for what we had and now have, as well as congratulations! carry on with this idea as long as you get enough fun and income from it.
To those saying slow progress, please read Scawen's post about kids education again

...
maybe post this kind of flamewar fodder into the improvement suggestions section so that I do not stumble upon it?
Thanks

Disclaimer: I am speaking only for myself. I do not feel like a sheep, LFS is the only game I have purchased for...xx years (since some floppy discs during Atari computers times .

I want to say thank you to the dev team, and especially to Scawen, for the following:
I like the game for what it is but also as a unique piece of software, which possesses the characteristics of objects created by skilled craftsmen (good and bad ones, overall very positive - like a hand made english car (or expensive swiss watch) maybe?)

I appreciate the tone Scawen puts in the communications on the forums lately, taking a little more time to explain his choices in development and sharing with us what the next steps could be. Some here should read these posts more carefully before spamming nonsense.
The test patches forum is very informative, but maybe a read only feature and special registration granted by the mod team to post in there would help keeping the spam (even friendly spam is spam) out.

I have little interest in eye candy but still think that the tracks and cars look very good even on my laptop, at least good enough not to worry about them and concentrate on racing. Which is what I am (still) here for.

Also thank you for remaining focused and working hard despite sometimes harsh and unrefined criticism on these forums. Sometimes when I read them I feel than if I were in the dev teams place I would need to take a long break from LFS.

So thanks and please continue creating this unique sim.

Racing on CTRA2.
"T3STOST3RONZOR111++" rams you off the track at T1. In the process YOU take half of the field out.
!!! "T3STOST3RONZOR111++" says sorry!

You get off the server to watch the replay and report "T3STOST3RONZOR111++" . Join back, not allowed due to a massive drop in safety ratings.
...

You
A)Join CTRA1, and continue racing with "T3STOST3RONZOR111++" and his friends?
B)Join DRIFTZOR club with disabled rating stuff
C)Turn off LFS and go live a normal life for a change?

Apart from that I like your idea.
Have a :trophy_br, no medals in store.

Last edited by Mille Sabords, Thu 26 Jun 2008, 15:14. Reason : horrid typo

Quote from Woz :

Look at the yellow rating in CTRA. Yes you pick up yellows sometimes when its NOT your fault but over the course of time your rating gives a good reflection of how clean you are on the track.

TBH: If the system were such that servers had to enable a filter to block dick head drivers then its not a prob. If you are a dick you have to play on unfiltered servers until you rating gets better. That is good punishment for being a dick in the first place.

I do not see a chance for this - who would open servers for wreckers on purpose?

I suggest getting rid of the forums because all that comes out of here lately are stupid suggestions

I use exclusively a mouse in LFS, and it is not a money issue.
If I had a choice I would race with a wheel , and I thank the devs for being able to drive with a mouse - without it I would never have bought a license.

Here are the positive and negative sides from my point of view:
Positive
Easier correction (faster virtual wheel movement)
Less strength required for steering
Easy setup
Space saver and portable solution (I only have a laptop and no desk, but on the other hand I can carry my LFS rig in a backpack)
mouse accuracy - no mechanical friction or backlash added to lag
Silence - priceless, I could not use LFS with a wheel in the evenings as it would wake up my kids, flat too small
A mouse does not look like a toy - I see no way I could convince the miss that a wheel can be used by adults. And my kids are girls and too young to be of help there...
Driving with a mouse reduces addiction (because it is no so enjoyable). Don't know if it is positive though

Negative
No FFB; on/off pedals unless you use 2 axis (I get lost traing this) or strange gimmicks
Stress on hands / joints dificult to cope with in long races (above 10-20 min)
Less accuracy for small adjustments - combined with above it becomes difficult not to oversteer.
Absolutely unnatural way to steer a car (for RL drivers at least) - requires a high abstraction capacity to get enough immersion to enjoy a race.
Learning time and progress are worse I think because of the alien control - even less ways to feel what the car is up to, so you en up correcting instead of preventing unless you spend gazillion hours practicing to extract the maximum information from vision and sound only.

If I did not have to choose between my wife and a wheel, and if I had room for it, I would be driving with a wheel for sure. For the moment I try to make the best with mouse + laptop and I can assure you I can have fun & close races as well, despite some frustration.
You can check my times on LFSW, not fast but neither ridiculously slow. Powerful RWD are quite a challenge though.

I don't need pets, I have 2 kids...

He saw you coming from afar?